Adrian Warnock asks this question in reference to something that Doctor Lloyd Jones said in one of his books.
“There is nothing, I am convinced, that so ‘quenches’ the Spirit as the teaching which identifies the baptism of the Holy Ghost with regeneration. But it is a very commonly held teaching today, indeed it has been the popular view for many years…”
I was quick to accept this in my initial post on the subject on my other blog Dancing with the Trinity But having reflected further on the subject and specifically what the Doctor says next.
But if you say that they are identical, you do not expect anything further.
Yet there may be some who do hold that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is equal to Salvation / Regeneration who do believe that there can be an ongoing experience of being filled with the Holy Spirit and who may seek the Lord for that fresh infilling. It could more be a matter of semantics and misunderstanding of Theological language rather then truly hardening ones heart against the Spirit.
Which I think Jones would agree with from what he says next.
And if you do not believe that it is possible for you to experience the Spirit of God bearing direct witness with your own spirit that you are a child of God, obviously you are quenching the Spirit. That is why so many Christian people are miserable and unhappy; they do not know anything about crying out, ‘Abba, Father’; or about ‘the Spirit of adoption’. God is a Being away in the far distance; they do not know Him as a loving Father; they do not know that they are His children. They may believe it intellectually, theoretically…
Perhaps he is mixing the experience of the fresh infilling of the Spirit rather then the one off Baptism of the Holy Spirit subsequent to salvation which he speaks?
I come from the Pentecostal position in that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a one off event, subsequent to salvation, followed by fresh experiences of the infilling of the Spirit.
However I believe and some may think me overly harsh for saying so, that the cessationist doctrines are not Holy Spirit inspired and those who hold and teach the same are guilty of hardening their hearts against the work of the Holy Spirit and perhaps may even come close to, or commit the act of actually blaspheming against the Spirit. Even at best they are guilty of grieving the Holy Spirit and James says that teachers will be doubly judged.
We need to look at the Bible, using doctrine when doctrine is taught, bringing Doctrine alongside the Biblical narrative. We read of three cases in Scripture where Salvation / Regeneration take place before the Baptism of the Holy Spirit happens.
- Jesus breathes upon the Disciples and tells them to receive the Holy Spirit .
- The Samaritans who accept the Gospel with joy, but did not receive the Holy Spirit until the Apostles went to them.
- Paul discovered some believers who had not received the Holy Spirit. We need to note that Paul specifically asked them if they received the Holy Spirit when they believed…to which they replied “what Holy Spirit?”…
Further more in every Scriptural recording, something overt happened to signify the reception of the Spirit – usually with tongues or prophecy. You can read more about that gift here.
The normal teaching regarding the Acts narrative is that it fulfilled the requirements of first the Jews, then Samaritans and then the Gentiles to receive the Holy Spirit and through those 3 incidences the Holy Spirit had been completely given and therefore the Spirit had been given to all. It does seem rather forced to the natural reading of the Scripture according to the way it was documented as history.
The other issue about it, is many who hold to this teaching say you cannot use Acts for doctrinal purposes to those who hold to a more natural reading of the narrative, which is rather hypocritical when their own doctrine has been formed from the same narrative.
In forming our theology of the Holy Spirit we cannot divide any of the authors of the Epistles Doctrine from the narrative story, and read our own western mindset / experience into it. Its by combining both the Biblical narrative with the teachings that we can clearly see that there is a indeed a experience of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit to be had…. and then not only that one of event, but Scripture shows there are times of repeated refreshing s.
I don’t think God cares about honest mistakes in belief when his people are clearly seeking after him. But when hearts are hardened against both the clear teaching of Scripture and against seeking a fresh experience of the Lord and all he would give to them and teaches others the same- then those people are guilty of quenching the Spirit of the Lord.
I – myself – have had the Holy Spirit Baptism. It changed me forever. I never knew what it was, but I was shown in Luke Chapter 11 how we can ask for the Holy Spirit. I did at one of the most darkest times of my life. It changed many things about me. Some things I use to like, I don’t like any longer. I once drank, and I no longer drank. I once did cocaine, but I no longer do cocaine. I can tell anyone that this is a true experience. This is coming from someone who was raised in a Baptist church and never was taught about the Holy Spirit Baptism, but it happened to me. This is coming from a person who was always told it was only an experience for the time of Christ, but it happened to me. It amazes me how people don’t know of this experience, and they seem to pass by the Book of Acts Holy Spirit experiences like they were only for those people. This is not true. Peter says the Holy Spirit Baptism is for your children and your children’s children. So, after I received the Holy Spirit Baptism, I discovered there were few Christians with which to discuss my experience. Salvation is not the Holy Spirit Baptism. Salvation is accepting Jesus as the Christ and Lord into your life and repenting of your sins. The Holy Spirit Baptism is a communion with God between the spirit of man. I have contemplated many times as to why people rarely get the Holy Spirit Baptism, and I have come to some conclusions. 1.) They never ask sincerely for it. 2.) The Holy Spirit is like the wind and goes to and fro and He may come to you when He knows you most need Him. 3.)Most people do not understand what sincere repentance is. I cried in tears of anxious, and I repented in true sincerity. It was so sincere that I knew it was, and God knew I was sincere, too. 4.) Most people ask forgiveness for their sins, but they do not have tearful repentance like King David and many other prophets in the Bible. God knows my heart. Since I received the Holy Spirit Baptism, I never received it again, but I have been cleaned out. Once a liar, no longer a liar. Once a thief, no longer a thief. Once a fornicator, no longer a fornicator. Once an adulterer, no longer an adulterer. I am speaking of habitual sin. Not sins few and far between. We all have those. Anyway, yes, it’s a true experience. It changed me forever. This is what Jesus meant when he told Nicodemus about being Born Again. Just thought I’d share.
Can somebody say in simple form whether Salvation/Regeneration and Baptism in Holy Spirit is same?
Yes or No
Blessings
Nihal Uduwara
from
Sri Lanka
Hi Nihal, the simple answer is no!
The problem is that after you receive the Holy Spirit Baptism, and all those amazing things happen – after you feel the wisdom, love and perfection of a Holy Spirit – you forever beat yourself up over one sin sometimes. It is different when you know the truth and do not live the truth. It is much worse than never knowing the truth at all. But, then, I step back and ask forgiveness, and I make sure I am right with God.
I also wish to put the believer at peace who has not received the Holy Spirit Baptism. Remember this! It is wise to remember it! God knows when you will surrender everything to Him. He knows when you will be done with your old life. He knows when to hit you, because He knew all things from the beginning of time to the last chapter of this earth. You might ask for the Holy Spirit Baptism, and you may not experience anything for 20 years. The first time I asked at 15, I did not receive it. But, twenty years later – at 36 – I asked again at the darkest time in my life. In short, the Lord spoke to my heart. He told me He had been waiting for me for 20 years.
I knew why, too, at that moment. Because, I was chasing after this world for those 20 years. Growing up. Learning the hard way. The Lord knew I would be ready only after I had nearly destroyed myself. Sincere tears of repentance.
Who say that saved man does not sin? I beg to differ. He may not sin habitually, but we all sin. Let me prove it from the Word of God. “… for though a righteous man falls seven times, he rises again, but the wicked are brought down by calamity” Proverbs 24:16. So, remember, when you fall, my brothers and sisters, rise again, repent and get back on the wagon with Jesus. The wicked never repent and never acknowledge their sin. Amen?
God bless everyone who has spoke on this subject.. i will try to be brief in this explanation mostle pointing ot GRAND GIZMO. thank God you recieved the “baptism of the holy spirit”.. i just want to ask you how do you “seperate” that experience from salvation… you say in your article that “the holy spirit baptizm is what Jesus was talking about being born again… HOW CAN ONE BE SAVED WITHOUT BEING BORN AGAIN. so even in your own admittance you say that batism of Holy Spirit is same thing as salvation or regeneration… AND TO THE OTHER PERSON THAT ASK IS IT SAME THING YES OR NO, the answer is Yes.. you can see in Gizmo article he is contradicting himslef… now how can you be 15 asking for the baptism of Holy Spirt and recieve it at 36 and say you was saved that whole time? so did you earn it? you obviously was still walking in sin with no intentions of “giving whole self” to God… God knows the heart right? so wouldnt He give the Holy Spirit “ONLY” to those who heart is pricked and truley repentative.. so your heart wasnt right until you truel repented and He gave u the BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. point being is why you was sitting in the baptise church not knowing of the baptism of the Holy Spirit you was being misled about what “recieving Christ ” really meant “biblically”. how can someone who does supposley have the Holy Spirit but not know of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. when Jesus said the Holy Spirit would lead you to all truth(jn 16:13). my point is Gizmo you wasnt saved until you got baptized with Holy Spirit… now anyone who wants to discuss this with “ONLY SCRIPTURES” im willing to explain in full… just write to me at robygreg@yahoo.com or SaveOurSoulsministries@comcast.net.
question to ponder for all… if salvation is seperate from baptism of HOly Spirit then was the people of the 120 who spoke in tongues on penecost all ready born again(received the spirit) in ACTS 2:1-4. in ACTS 10 was cornelus already saved before he got baptised in Holy Spirit in verse 43-46? and in Acts 19:1-6 was those disciples already saved? i think you all know the answer to these questions.. answer is they were not “born again” yet… this was FIRST TIME they recieved the Holy Spirit.. so again we recieve the Holy Spirit at the baptism of Holy Spirit.. God bless
oh one other thing Gizmo and those readin this. you mentioned that you was “CHASING AFTER THE WORLD” for 20 yrs…. you are trying to say you was saved but bible scriptures would prove you wasnt at that time…. 1jn 2:15, 1jn 2:3-5; this is the big one 1jn 3:6,9-10. THIS SHOWS THAT ANYONE WHO IS TRUELY CONVERTED CAN AND WILL NOT “CONTINUOUSLY” PRACTICE SIN.. YOUR HEART HAD YOU GOING FOR THE WORLD… your admitting that… a true and converted heart of God will not “CHASE AFTER THE WORLD”… im not saying you will “never” sin but you wll not practice it habitually…. you also said that “GOD spoke to you and said He was waiting for you” well He was waiting for what? waiting for you rto truely repent? so with yoour 4 reasons of why people dont get BAPTIZED IN HOLY SPIRIT i agree with except number 2.. but guess what those are why people dont get TRUELY SAVED PERIOD.. so again salvatin is when a person gets baptized in Holy Spirit.. last comment is this…….why would God save a person but not give him the “power” to live saved… salvation is not just going to heaven.. salvation is having power of the enemy to be able to live in victory over sin and its power on mankind…. we have too many people claiming be saved to get to heaven ,,but live without no proof of saving power now…. in possible to happen.. either your saved or not… and if your saved yop have power over enemy… again… how can those who say your saved with out power of holy spirit, they are false and errouneous…. error leads to deception…GOD BLESS..